Paul Nolte, Senior VP at Kingsview Wealth Management, joined Bob Sirott to talk about the Fed’s plans to raise rates, why the housing market is slowing down, and the benefits of short term gains. He also discussed why cryptocurrencies are more risky than other investments and retail sales numbers.
Paul Nolte, Senior VP at Kingsview Wealth Management, joined Bob Sirott to discuss when we could see a recession hit the economy, how long inflation rates could go, how high are interest rates going to get, and more.
U.S. braces for possible spike in inflation and recession
Despite the U.S. adding more jobs in May, many Americans fear a recession is on the horizon. Senior Vice President of Kingsview Investment Management Paul Nolte joins “CBS News Mornings” to discuss the latest.
Kingsview SVP Paul Nolte takes a deeper dive into oil, automobiles, retail sales slowing, inflation, and the raising of interest rates that will invert the yield curve.
Ilyce Glink fills in for Jon Hansen on Your Money Matters and she talks with Paul Nolte, Senior VP at Kingsview Wealth Management. The two discuss retirement and how Paul advises clients in preparation for a future recession. Plus, short-term bonds, stocks, and reinvesting.
CIO Scott Martin discusses the recession, energy re-emergence, earnings and consumer staples.
Program: Making Money with Charles Payne
Station: Fox Business News
CHARLES PAYNE: Now, without a doubt, these are tough investing times, but the market is always about the future. So we’re going to try and see if we can go to some sort of a time machine taking a may 20 of 2023. What are we going to be looking back at bringing in right now to to help figure it all out? We’ve got Luke Lloyd, Scott Martin and Rob Luna. Thanks a lot, guys. First, let’s get your read on recession and how your current portfolio is mixed. You know, stocks, cash, bonds, whatever it is. Let me start with you, Scott. Recession, yes or no?
SCOTT MARTIN: Recession now? That’s right. That’s that’s that’s a factor. I mean, that’s really what people are missing. I don’t care if it’s Scott Ryan or all these other goofballs talking about recession in a year, two years, which is ridiculous recessions. Now. Now, the cool part about that is we’ll get through it faster. It’s going to be shallow, but it’s going to hurt and it’s starting to show up in the market. I mean, that’s why the market is going nuts. That’s right. Rates are going down, boys and girls, right now with all these Fed hikes supposedly coming. And yeah, I’m a little fired up today because I saw this great interview with Edward Lawrence and Jim Bullard. I mean, the guy’s foolish, not Edward. Jim Bullard is. I mean, he’s talking about above trend GDP growth. No worries about stagflation. He’s talking about all these great Fed mandates that are ahead, like they’ve blown it between the Fed screwing this up and the administration. And I’m not talking about Whoopi Goldberg supporting Joe Biden. All these people out there, the actual administration has no clue about helping the economy and helping oil prices, helping the consumer. So we have really bad policy out there on all fronts. And that’s where the market is going down. That’s why we’re being driven in recession. The recession is here.
LUKE LLOYD: Yeah, I think Scotty hit the nail on the head there. You know, we’ll find out in a couple of months. We’re actually already in recession right now. But here’s the thing that everybody needs to know. By the time we feel the
most amount of pain economically, the stock market will already be on its way back up. You know, we’ve been pretty cautious for a while, but we’re finally nibbling at some stocks again. Finally, the scariest part to me is that two thirds of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck right now. And what happens when the job market starts to take a turn, which.
PAYNE: It will, which, by the way, we have to point out that’s the goal of the Federal Reserve to make it take a negative turn. The Fed is trying to crack the economy without destroying it. No one has confidence, Rob, that they can pull that off our, you know, recession camp already.
ROBERT LUNA: Yeah, absolutely. I think Elon Musk and if Scott Martin says that we’ve got to be in a recession, Charles, I mean, I think, look, we had a negative print the first quarter of this year. More than likely, we’re going to have a negative print the second quarter. So that would mean we are technically in a recession. We won’t be calling that for a little bit of time. But look, the playbook that you use when you’re preparing for a recession, consumer staples, some of those types of stocks, they’re trading more expensive than the growth stocks now. So don’t think that’s going to be a safe haven, guys.
PAYNE: All right. I want to stay with that, because the action in the market itself has been pretty intriguing. I mean, I don’t think a lot of folks would understand that coming into this session. If you go back to May 11th, the Ark Innovation Fund up 17% and that safe haven staples down 7%, including 10% this week. So, Rob, 20, the top 25 positions in ARK now have a price to sales ratio of six. That’s down from 36. I mean, how do we define value in these moments when you have these big value names they told you to sell at a big loss. You went to the safe havens and now they’re getting clobbered.
LUNA: Yeah, look, I mean, like I said, the safe havens, they’re trading more expensive. Look at Kellogg. It’s trading at 22 times earnings versus 17 times earnings on on metaverse right now. So that’s not where you want to be going. And as you mentioned, Charles, and we’ve really seen this as the market is trying to put a bottom ark yesterday was up four, four and one half percent when the market’s down. That’s exactly the type of rotation we need to see. And guys, look, if you’re looking at 2000 is the playbook, the S&P on the S&P right where it was now, the the PE on the Nasdaq back then was 28. Right now it’s 20. So if you’re looking to look at valuation metrics, we’re not that far off here either.
PAYNE: Luke, you mentioned you started nibbling. What are you looking at?
LLOYD: Yeah. So one of the stocks we started nibbling at is Axon Enterprises. So you got to look at current strong cash flow companies and not look for growth in earnings 5 to 10 years down the road. And the fact of the matter is, we do think that we’re entering a recession and a stock like Axon. They supply tasers and body cams to police officers and military. Right. So crime actually goes up in a recessionary environment. So that’s in an area where we’re looking at. And then also in the energy sector right now, you know, oil is not is had a big run up, but nuclear energy is actually where we’re taking a look right now. CCJ is a stock we just picked up as well because nuclear energy is one of the cleanest energies out there and nobody talks about that. And I actually was just talking with an advisor over the past couple of months that specializes in nuclear energy. It’s getting a lot more political drive. And again, it’s going to adopt a lot quicker than people realize.
PAYNE: Yeah, let me stick with the energy theme. Crude oil now up for the fourth week in a row. We know energy has been like the only shining light with respect to equities. Yet if you look at it long term, over the past 30, 40 years, it’s only a spec of what it used to be. In the seventies it was like 25% in the market. Scott, with that. Is it too late to chase these names?
MARTIN: Yeah. Don’t call it a comeback, because it’ll be here for years. Because I’ll tell you what. Energy is starting to re-emerge. Like you said, Charles, we’ve been adding pipelines. I think we have XL already, but we’ve been adding pipelines like MLP because that’s just going to be the toll booth for the flow of the crew that goes through. But I love Luke’s call. To me, we’re talking about more crime in a recession if we can actually handle it, and nuclear stuff. So that’s interesting plays as well because you’ve got to get creative here. Rob talked about it. I mean, Staples, the one issue, guys, that I have a problem with, I mean, Staples absolutely destroyed this week, absolutely hammered one of the worst week Staples have had in years. Here’s the thing, though. The numbers are so goofy on earnings going forward. If you look at Yardeni, Bloomberg, S&P, J.P. Morgan, everybody’s like 250, $250 on the S&P for 2023. You put a 20 X estimate on that. That’s 5000 on the S&P. Okay, fine. But guess what? If that number is wrong, let’s see. It’s 200. Let’s say it’s even less and you put a less estimate or less multiple on that estimate. You’re looking at S&P 3500 or less, maybe 3000 at fair value. They’ve got to get those earnings
estimate numbers right because PE means nothing if those estimates are wrong and.
PAYNE: They’re supposed to be used for P, which is one of my favorite metrics. Let’s talk about the biggest loser today. Ross stores another major blow to retailers. Obviously, they’re dealing with inflation and these massive inventories just as people are spending less money. On the flip side, though, restaurant sales are going up. We could also see air travel above 2019 levels. Rob, you’ve talked about that sort of reopening of FOMO, a yellow kind of thing. I’m getting my acronyms all confused here. Is that a place we want to be right now?
LUNA: Yeah, I mean, I think so. Look, this millennial generation values activities, they value experiences. They’ll actually sit asleep on their mother’s couch to be able to do that and spend the money. I’ve seen that in my own practice, so I think that’s an area you’re going to want to stay with. And so traditionally those have pulled back during recession, I think, because we’ve already had some weakness in those. That is probably a theme that you could stick with, Charles.
PAYNE: All right, guys, we’ve covered a lot. I really appreciate it. Really good stuff. Luke, Scott, Rob, thank you all very much.
CIO Scott Martin discusses the indicators of recession, the job market, interest rates and taxes.
Program: Cavuto Coast to Coast
Station: Fox Business News
DAVID ASMAN: Kingsview Asset Management CIO Scott Martin joining me now. Scott, you look at all the stocks that that are kind of indicators of where the economy is going. That’s what Wal-Mart is. That’s what Lowe’s is. That’s what Target is. These were, as we were saying in the last hour, these were the safe socks stocks compared to to the Nasdaq stocks, the fly by nights, and they’re down 25%. Are you are we looking square in the face of a recession here?
SCOTT MARTIN: Yeah. The recession is here, David. I think you’re right. I think and I love what you’re talking about with Lauren there previous because you’re right. I mean, you look at Amazon, too. I’d throw that in there. David is a retail bellwether, consumer staple name to some degree for many of us. And I think the recessions here, we had negative GDP growth in Q1. I think Q2 is going to be right there with it. That’s why two, I think the markets, David, as we parse things out in the last couple of months, why they’ve been so negatively reactive to so-so data, you know, they started seeing through, I think, a lot of the data and realizing recession was here or coming. So the good news, though, is that the sooner we get through this, the sooner we’re going to get out of it. And I know that’s not much consolation for many of us who are holding stocks today that are down. But the sooner that we can kind of get through this malaise, the sooner that these falls are drops happen, the sooner the markets can recover and go up. It’s just hard to get through at times.
ASMAN: It’s a strange recession. And again, so it was 2009. So we’ve had some recent history of strange recessions. But one thing that’s so strange, we have such a surplus of jobs, usually recessions and and lowering job numbers go hand in hand. In this case, we still have that overhang of 11 million unfilled jobs. Are those going to dry up pretty quickly if we’re smack in the middle of a recession?
MARTIN: Some will, but it doesn’t matter if they do because you’ve got two jobs for every one person that’s looking for a job. So they have some room to do that. I think it’s a great call by you to say it’s a strange recession, which almost like write a song with that title because then you’ll be on vocals, of course, and me on keys. Because here’s the thing. I mean, I don’t want to sing in front of anybody ever again. But here’s the thing. You’re right, David. That also probably means, though, that this recession, because I believe it’s here, will be short and sweet in the sense of we’re not going to see that crazy real estate fallout we saw in oh nine the crazy drop that we saw in oh one. We had the tech crash, terrorist attacks. We had a big jobs recession back then, too. So this could be a short and shallow one. But the key aspect behind this, the man or woman, if you will, behind the curtain is Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen and Fed Chairman Chairman Jerome Powell. Because they’re raising interest rates, David, into a recession now pretty precipitously. So how does that shake out with respect to negative GDP growth? Two quarters in a row and we’ve got, what, about 200 basis points in hikes coming down the pike from the Fed?
ASMAN: You know, the that’s not the only thing they’re raising. They’re also raising the number of regulations we have to deal with, particularly in the energy industry. And that’s causing more inflation. That is to say, all of the pressures that are causing inflation are just increasing the policy pressures. So I don’t think we’re going to end the inflation thing any time soon. The recession may be short lived because of the the economy coming back online after the pandemic, but the inflation is going to remain with us and stubbornly really kind of put a cap on growth, don’t you agree?
MARTIN: I agree to some degree, I guess I could say. I mean, I think the inflation picture, though, is starting to peek out a bit. We’re still high.
ASMAN: Oh, I don’t.
MARTIN: We’re starting to slow that rate of growth. Well, I think we’re starting to slow the rate of growth, David. I mean, we’re we’re going.
ASMAN: To wholesale now, forgive me for interrupting, but look at the wholesale prices, which are are precede the retail price increases. We’re in double digits on wholesale prices.
MARTIN: Sure. And that’s true, David. But that’s also a reflection of the fact that we have supply chain issues that are starting to get worked out slowly but surely and likely coming as as a reflection of slower demand because of the recession that’s here or coming. So that will help hopefully relieve some pressure on prices. But still to that point about where inflation is going forward, how companies are trying to pass along, we saw target comment on that as well. It’s really impacting that tried and true tried and true consumer that’s been holding us up all through, say, the pandemic.
ASMAN: Yeah. Yeah. And part of the other craziness of this recession, if we’re in it already, is the fact that you have so few houses. So even though recessions really hurt the housing market and it may hurt this time as well, because we have such a dearth of product of inventory in housing that may be secure if particularly if it’s a short lived recession. But it’s interesting, you’re the second market analyst we said we’ve had on who said it’s virtually 100% sure that we’ve got a recession coming. So it’s it’s not good news, but we’re going to have to learn to live with it. Good to see you, Scott.
MARTIN: Sooner the better. We’ll get up it quicker. See you David.
ASMAN: Thank you, Scott Martin, my friend. Thank you.